Why do Gentiles [non-Jews] not keep the 7th day Sabbath?
Is the Law and/or Sabbath done away with?
A SDA Pastor told me that the "law" that Paul spoke of is not the same as the commandments. Is he correct?
What do SDA believe on about death, and what is soul sleep?
.....what exactly does "sleep" mean if it is not talking about the soul?
Is Seventh-day Adventism a cult?
Are Seventh-day Adventist Christian?
Do Adventist believe in the rapture of the church, if not then what do they believe?
Don't SDA preach about Jesus?, Isn't this enough!
I spoke with my SDA friend of all the information (truth) from your site and they reject it, Why?
You need to either read the section about the Sabbath and its purpose in - "The Sabbath - Relevant for Christians Today?"
No. And nowhere in this site is it implied that the law or sabbath was done away or killed. Many Sunday churches teach this by the scripture that notes:
Col 2:14 ....having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
They will say that the "handwriting of requirements" phrase noted here is the entire OT law of God [The Pentateuch].
No, the law of God is perfect (Psa 19:7), so can never be destroyed or changed except by God.
In a nutshell, what we primarily point out is two main things:
Let's explain both of these clearly.
The NT law I am speaking of is the law of the Spirit and Grace (Rom 7:4/Gal 5:4/Rom 6:14). The NT law and OT law are not one and the same. God CLEARLY mentions the new covenant (Heb 8:8-13/2 Cor 3:6/Mat 26:28), as being new and different. Check out this link for more proof on disputing the notion of both being merged
The key point of the NT law is that it is greater than the OT one, and anyone [by faith] can choose to appropriate the New over the Old.
Once you do appropriate the New law then it exempts you from keeping the Old [because the New is GREATER then the Old].
Look at it this way. Say for instance you have the law that says you shouldn't speed. Everyone knows that if a regular person breaks this law then the consequences are a ticket and possibly jail time [if you went fast enough.]
OK, say you are a police officer, but you have to speed in order to make an emergency call. Are you under that law that says you cannot speed? [Of course NOT!]
Why? Because there is plainly ANOTHER [Greater] law that says you have the right to speed in order to travel to emergency calls.
So it is with NT Gentiles. They have [if they appropriate it] the NEW covenant or law that they can be under, and not have to keep the other OT law.
HERE IS THE KEY ISSUE -- God gives any Gentile a choice, just as He did with the fruit in the garden of Eden. The NT law, or the OT law--Which one will you choose?
But anyone [Jew or Gentile] who places themselves under the yoke (Acts 15:10) of the OT law will experience a few devastating consequences/circumstances:
I think any one of these are pretty heavy (burdens), and any rational person would not want to place themselves under this. It notes in scriptures that you are actually TESTING God when you do this!
Act 15:10 - "Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"
But if anyone choose to do so, then that is their choice--and they will have to live with it on judgement day.
For more details you should read the sections in - "The Sabbath - Relevant for Christians Today?"
SDA believe that when you die that your soul will go into a "state" of sleeping. This is not a sleeping as you experience every night, as in a "rest" sleep. This is sort of more a "death" type of sleep. This state begins (saved and unsaved) at the moment your mind and bodily functions cease to function. It is at that time that your "soul" will enter into a non-existences, and/or sleep until that time when Jesus returns and that last trump sounds (1Cor 15:51) and the dead will rise and be judged (Rev 20:11-15). Some SDA believe that your soul stays or resides at the location that it (your body) is resting, other SDA believe that the soul just "disappears" into a nothingness until Jesus returns to "pop" it back into existence (where the latter doctrine comes from no one knows). SDA get this doctrine from a combination of Old Testament (OT) and New Testament (NT) scriptures (mixing and melding the two--see this link for more on this).
To answer this question you have to look at the totality (or context) of scripture (OT and NT). OT scriptures always referred to death as "sleeping with the Fathers." Even in the NT there was some confusion as to what this sleep was.
John 11:11-14 - These things He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up." Then His disciples said, "Lord, if he sleeps he will get well." However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead".
Jesus noted PLAINLY that Lazarus was/is dead. So was this death a sleeping death like what the SDA say? Well, there are a number of scriptures that would counter this conclusion (remember, context.) If "sleeping" was a regular norm whenever a person died then it would be consistent throughout the whole NT (you do not see this). When Ananias was killed by God for lying (Act 5:5) it didn't say he "fell asleep," it said he gave up the ghost (ghost is the spirit). It is the same term that describes Jesus death (Joh 19:30, etc.), so you cannot just say that this (giving up the ghost) was different. So if "falling asleep" was the norm and/or universal for people then why did it not note it with Jesus? And when Jesus said to the thief on the cross that he would be with Him (Jesus [Luk 23:43]) in paradise today was Jesus LYING? How could the thief be somewhere (paradise) with Jesus if he was sleeping?
Then there is the OT example with Elijah. There is a situation where Elijah raised a boy from the dead.
1Ki 17:21 -21 - And he stretched himself out on the child three times, and cried out to the LORD and said, "O LORD my God, I pray, let this childs soul come back to him." Then the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came back to him, and he revived.
How could his soul return (from some place) if it was "sleeping" in his body (it would already be there!) This is CLEAR undisputable evidence that SDA doctrine is NOT TRUE!
What is the answer then? Many evangelicals believe that the answer is found in Pauls writings that note, "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."(2Cor 5:8) Paul also notes in Philippians 1:23 his desire to depart and be in the presence of the Lord. His words, "be with Christ" would imply an immediate audience with Christ in heaven. Here again is CLEAR undisputable NT evidence that SDA doctrine is NOT TRUE! There are other NT examples in the witnessing link that you can pursue.
Many Law keepers attempt to separate the law by claiming that the "law of Moses" and the "law of God" are different. They claim that the "law of Moses" is the ceremonial law, and the "law of God" is the ten commandments. So they'll say that the ceremonial law was the one that was done away with on the cross (Col 2:14), but that law of God is permanent and should be strictly kept by all mankind.
The reason why they use this "separation" argument due to the fact that the books of Romans, Galatians, and Hebrews being absolutely devastating to SDA doctrine. In fact, if anyone were to truely read those three books with a seeking [Berean] heart then they would not be a legalist [SDA] afterwards. It is that obvoius!!
A majority of scriptures would not completely support the theory that the law is somehow split into two parts. It does not matter whether it is the OT or NT, both support the view of a unified law.
The clearest example in the OT is in chapter eight (8) of the book Nehemiah, concentrating on verses #1 and 8. In context you will see that there is NO difference in the law and the commandments. They are literal Siamese twins of one another.
The most clear and devastating proof of all regarding this issue is from Paul (Gal 4:21-26), were he directly ties "the law" to the ten commandments.
(vs 21) Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
.......For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar--for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children--but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
So these scripture makes a direct reference to "the law" (in vs. 21), then Paul without question links the law to the covenant given on Mount Sinai (vs 24, 25).
So, there is no question that the covenant (or law) given on Mount Sinai was the very ten (10) commandments!
Not only is this clear in the context but the Greek supports this 100% also. The same Greek work for "the law" is the same root used THROUGHOUT the NT scriptures.
This being the case, then there can be no doubt as to what the law means throughout Galatians (and a majority of Pauls writings), and that there is no substantiation to Law keepers theory to a separation in the law, as it is spoken of in context.
So why do Adventist ignore this? [and the facts in Romans, Galatians, and Hebrews]. This would be the same as asking why the religious Jews of Jesus day rejected and killed Him [they, knowing the scriptures]--plainly, it is Sin.
As noted in the last section there was some obvious confusion in Jesus time as to exactly this "sleep" was (Joh 11:11-14). Adventist say that this sleep is referring to the Old Testament (OT) model noted in Eccl 9:5 - For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
I guess they surmise that the death type sleep is similar to regular sleep. In our regular sleeping or unconscience state most of us do indeed experience this situation, where we cannot comprehend what is going on around us (unless we wake up). SDA take the OT scripture (Eccl 9:5) as their prime proof that this is so, and that the soul sleeps at death. Therein lies the problem that I will soon expound on. It is an error concerning their total Bible exegesis that can be logically explained if viewed in the light of the NT.
The answer concerning what this "sleeping" state is has to do with precisely what the soul is as it relates to the body and spirit.
Paul notes that they are all linked -- 1Th 5:23 - Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The same Ecclesiastics that SDA love to quote from (with 9:5) also notes: Ecc 12:7 - Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
If we use a little logic here, noting that the "spirit" returns to God, then we can also assume that the soul (since it is linked with spirit) will return to God also. [*side note - SDA believe that the soul and spirit are separate]
So what in the heck is "sleeping" in this whole process? It can only be referring to THE BODY as sleeping!
Remember - 1Co 15:51-52 - Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
You should first see that this whole process IS A MYSTERY! Some may say that it is a mystery because it cannot be 100% verified. That may be partially true because we have no recent witnesses who have come back from the dead to verify the facts either way. But Paul is not speaking in this context, where it is a unexplainable mystery. Whenever Paul spoke about something as being a mystery it ALWAYS related to that fact that it was formerly "hidden."
It was revealed in the revelation of the NT through Jesus and the Holy Spirit in the Apostles. He refers to this in 1Cor 15 and other places when he talks about the bodily resurrection. In other words, it WAS a mystery in the Old Testament, but it was revealed in the New Testament. So the main crux of the problem with SDA is that they are still DWELLING ON OLD TESTAMENT INFORMATION (No wonder they are so confused). Another way to say it is, how could anyone in the Old Testament fully understand this issue (including Solomon in Ecclesiastics) if it was veiled? They COULD NOT!
Paul revealed that mystery in the NT, and again, from the 1Co 15:51-54 scripture you should see that the dead will rise incorruptible.
1Co 15:53-54 - For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
This is talking about a BODILY resurrection, not a SOUL resurrection! How can a soul be changed (only the body can be changed), or how can a soul experience corruption? (Only the body can be corrupted). This is, unless you believe that the soul has a physical essence. Paul notes that the BODY will be changed (see - 1Cor 15:14) from a natural BODY to a spiritual BODY. At the return of Jesus, If you already have your body then it will be changed on the spot (with your soul already present), if you had died then the spirit/soul will be re-united with your "sleeping" body (Jude 1:14/Dan 7:10/Zech 14:5/Rev 19:14). This should be clear.
Whether Seventh-day Adventism is a cult depends on a few complex factors. The least of which being how "exactly" one would label or define a cult (see more on this at this link). In the past, from its (SDA) founding up to the 60's, the SDA were commonly known and labeled a cult. During 60's a man by the name of Dr. Martin "re-defined" the Adventist, noting that they (SDA) were mostly or basically orthodox (i.e.- not a cult).
He based his analysis on the fact that they "mostly" preach and teach of and about Jesus Christ. He also met with the SDA General Conference at the time and they agreed (by a document called "Questions on Doctrine.") that they would emphasize grace over the law.
Well, here it is today and Dr. Martin has passed away and is in heaven, and are SDA in the same state as they were under Questions on Doctrine? The present news coming out of the SDA (churches, organization, publications, etc.) would definitely seem that they have forsaken not only Questions on Doctrine but have embraced their abberant roots (with Ellen G. Whites writings as a rule). Check out this link to examine this issue in detail.
This question is similar to the cult one. We have to examine this both on the "organization" or "individual" level.
If you are talking about the organization then there is no question that it is not totally Christian. That is seen in it's overall thinking, teaching, and theology. You can see this most clearly in the attitudes of the SDA, in their refusal to show love (John 13:35), acknowledge, and even cooperation with their Sunday Brethren (SDA calling themselves the "reminet" church). They have a separate agenda and purpose that includes evangelizing people who worship on Sunday (because you're worshipping on the day of the Devil/Beast), and that you are going to hell because of this. So the SDA organization has shifted strongly towards the doctrines of the past (based on Ellen White), and embraced their aberrant roots. With this in mind, and it being a cult, it cannot therefore be considered "Christian." If at best, it is a hybrid organization that mixes Jesus with the Law (much like mixing oil with water--is that possible?).
If we are talking about the SDA person then this is another matter. It is an issue that is only of the heart. If you will read excerpts of "The Sabbath - Relevant for Christians Today?", by John Cusaac, you will see that it all depends on whether the SDA person is relying on and trusting in "the Law" or "Grace" (through Jesus Christ) for their emphasis. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE!!
If they are trusting in the law then there is definitely a problem. Unfortunately, many times it is the organization that the people follow and agree with (like sheep following their shepherd), and are effected by the leaven of the SDA doctrines and teaching (1Co 5:6-8).
In the end, you will have to test and inspect the fruits (1John 4:1) of an individual SDA in order to figure out whether they are Christian or not.
Use this as a test; ask the SDA if you (we) MUST keep the 10 commandments in order to be saved and justified. Focus on the Sabbath when you ask this question. Some will try to weasel their way out of the question by not tying it (law keeping) precisely to salvation. You might hear something like, "well, we are saved initially by grace, but we're also saved unto good works (keeping the law, etc.) This is all legalistic "mumbo jumbo", and we are not called to be lawyers.
They will always find a way to tie the law with (or along side) grace--remember the oil and water? (it doesn't work) It's very similar to the junk that Jesus received in His day with the legalistic Pharisees. Either we are saved 100% by grace, or some OTHER thing(s). You should press the issue as to whether law and Sabbath keeping is a REQUIREMENT. If they say it is then you have before you a legalistic Pharisee who falls under the category of a questionable Christian (read Galatians, Romans and Hebrews for more on this). If they do not tie law keeping as a 100% requirement then you are probably dealing with a "evangelical" SDA (those who believe in a more grace theology). These SDA are the most likely to be Christian--they are few and far between in the SDA.
SDA do not believe in a rapture of the church. Most evangelicals call this ESCHATOLOGY (the Study of the End Times). Here is a summary:
THE BLESSED HOPE: We believe that the next great event in the fulfillment of prophecy is the coming of the Lord Jesus in the air to receive to Himself, in the twinkling of an eye, both the dead in Christ and believers who remain alive. We know this event theologically as the Rapture of the Church (1 Corinthians 15:51-52; Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 4:13-5:10; Titus 2:11-14; 1 John 3:2).
THE TRIBULATION: We believe that the Rapture of the Church will be followed by the fulfillment of Israels Seventieth Week, a seven-year period of tribulation, the latter half of which is the time of Jacobs trouble, the Great Tribulation (Daniel 9:24-27; Jeremiah 30:7; Matthew 24:15-21; Revelation 6:1-17).
THE SECOND COMING: We believe that the Great Tribulation will be climaxed by the premillennial return of the Lord Jesus Christ who makes His enemies His footstool and sets up His Kingdom on earth (Zechariah 14:4-11; Matthew 24-25; Acts 1:11; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; Hebrews 2:8; 10:12-13; Revelation 19:11-20:10).
SDA do not believe in the "Blessed Hope" part of eschatology. Because of this John Cusaac has noted that they will not receive of this (because they don't believe in it, therefore God will not respect unbelief).
Cusaac calls his doctrine the Rapture Faith belief. In other words, God honors and respects faith and belief in what His word says (Heb 11:6). The Jews of Jesus day rejected the belief and faith in Jesus as their Messiah and were therefore doomed and bypassed because of this (Mat 12:31-32). Cusaac believes that since they (SDA) don't believe in the Blessed Hope that they won't receive or participate in the Blessed Hope rapture event!
What is it that SDA do believe if it is not the rapture? Well, curiously enough, they do in fact believe that they will go through the great tribulation. In fact, they look forward to it! They believe that they will be the last voice for God during that time, and some believe that they will be sinless (Rev 14:5) during this time. They also believe that the mark of the Beast (Sunday, as they see it) will be fully initiated into law, where everyone will be forced to worship on that day. This is where they will say that the "tribulation" will be most heavy upon them (SDA) because Rome will kill many of them for their stance on Saturday worshiping.
Cusaac notes in book that he believes that SDA will in fact wake up during this time. They (the smart ones) will see that the true believing church has been raptured, and that they have been left behind. At this time Cusaac believes that they will finally repent and return to orthodoxy (grace) and be the many tribulation martyrs spoken of the book of Revelations (Rev 20:4).
Surely the SDA teach and preach of and about Jesus Christ of Nazareth. They also have done MANY great works around the world, built many hospital, schools, missions, etc. Many Christians have the attitude that if they (SDA or any organization) is basically Christian then they are one of us and not to be criticized or judged. Jesus did say judge not least you be judged (Matt 7:1). There was also a situation where others were preaching in the Lords name (Mar 9:38-40), and Jesus pointed out that they should not be forbidden because,"...for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. For he who is not against us is on our side."
So here we have a problem. Do you take this scripture as being ALL EXCLUSIVE? In other words, if any person preaches about Jesus, no matter how or what they preach about him then that will always be 100% valid and OK?
Well, you have gays preaching that Jesus and John were probably homosexual lovers because it noted that Jesus "loved" John (John 13:23). Then there are cults today that say that Jesus was the spirit brother of Lucifer. And there are others today who say Jesus was a rich man (here on earth) so we Christians should be rich Millionaires also.
I think you get the message; that is, ERROR DOES NOT excuse an all exclusive right to preach about Jesus. Jesus was also a man who was the very epitome of TRUTH (John 14:6). If you are preaching about Jesus and are also teaching ERROR then you are not of God. Paul noted that there are those who would not preach the true gospel of Jesus in the last days. He noted and warned that there would be false teachers and prophets who would come in these days (2Tim 4:3-4/2Cor 11;4), teaching lying doctrine (Eph 4:14). Paul and Silas even had to rebuke a lying spirit in their journeys (Acts 16:16-18).
Why would Paul rebuke that demon possessed little girl if she was basically saying the TRUTH?
Listen to this good--BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT WANT THE DEVIL PREACHING HIS WORD!
Why?, Because Satan will usually, or will eventually give a little bit of a lie with the truth (because it is his nature to lie - 2Cor 11:13-14/John8:44).
Even Jesus noted that there would be teachers/prophets who would come falsely teaching about Him and His word.
Mat 7:15 -18 - "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruit. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit."
Mat 24:11 - "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many."
Yes, we are not called to judge because judgment involves "condemning" one to judgment (hell, etc.), and only God can do that, but we are called to inspect fruit!
Jesus also noted: Mat 24:24 - "For false christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
I believe this one pertains most to SDA and other cults who are so BLIND that they (the elect) cannot even see their own plight.
Peter and Paul noted:
2Pe 2:1 - But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies,
Gal 2:4 - But this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),
Doesn't this describe the SDA to a "T"--where they submit themselves to bondage of legalism and doctrine?
Paul noted that is an ANGEL FROM HEAVEN (Gal 1:6-9) gives a gospel different than what the Apostles taught then they should be immediately 100% accursed (read it yourself--Gal 1:8).
We can say WITHOUT A DOUBT that the doctrines and teaching of the SDA church (as tied to Ellen G. White) are/is a FALSE GOSPEL. It is a gospel very different from what the Apostle taught, and in fact much is the opposite of what they taught (read Galatians, Romans and Hebrews as compared what SDA teach!)
So, Yes, SDA do preach Jesus and do great works, but that does not give then Carde Blanche to preach without anyones criticism. We are called to test (1John 4:1) ALL THINGS, and REJECT the evil. SDA teach just enough error to make them a cult. We would call them to repent and return to the true gospel of grace. If this were to happen then I'm sure their whole evangelical brethren would embrace them with open arms.
Because SDA are Modern-day Pharisees--it is that simple.
You have to remember that Pharisees are spiritually hardheaded, so it is extremely hard from them to accept truth!
It is comparable to what Stephen said to the religious Jews [Pharisees] of his day:
Act 7:51 - "You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you."
So, SDA being Modern-day Pharisees, will also do what is their nature to do, and resist the Holy Spirit (and His truth).
I playfully label them, "Granite Brains!"
So it is much like any cult that is also spiritually deceived [like the Mormans, JW's, etc]. They CLING onto the lie more than the truth because of spiritual pride. But as with any Pharisee, on judgement day it will not hold any water.
So what can you do? You can only pray and follow the dictates of scripture:
2Tim2:24-26 - And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
Most SDA are in and under the snare of Satan, and are just to stupid or spiritually lazy to seek the truth.
As I mentioned in other sections, where I note:
So why do Adventist completely ignore the facts? [and the clear references in Romans, Galatians, and Hebrews]. This would be the same as asking why the religious Jews of Jesus day rejected and killed Him [they, knowing the scriptures]--plainly, it is Sin.
In many cases, it is a literal miracle that they do "come out" of this cult. But God is in the miracle business, so with Him it is possible.
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